The real reason why we migrated over here, it was due to Christian persecution. Yeah, we were doing okay. I mean, we didn't, my dad didn't have a job. It's really hard to find a job because they pay you in cents and they make you work all of these hours under the sun, and they only pay you like, what would be like $20 a week.

So my dad's job was to pick out—what are they called?--peaches. And he lost that job because it wasn't the peach season anymore. So he lost his job, and out of nowhere he got a phone call from somebody, and they were like, just cursing him out: “Hey, we have your son kidnapped.”

And so my dad's freaking out, and my brother was in school, so my dad just started freaking out. And thankfully, they were trying to scare him, but—

Carrie 2:09

So they were just bluffing? They didn't have him, or they did?

Keren

They didn't have him. But that same person that was talking to him kept passing by the house in a suburban, in a black suburban.

Carrie

That's scary.

Keren

So my brother came home and my dad just locked us there, for days actually.

Carrie 2:29

How old were you when that happened?

Keren

I was five.

Carrie

Okay, so your brother was like, 17 or something?

Keren

He's 13 years older than me, so he was like, 18.

The real reason why they were, like, after my dad was because he's an evangelist. So he's always been really big on that; he goes to the streets. He was really big on going to the jails. So in the jail, he would preach to the gang members and the cartel people, and they started giving their life to Jesus.

Carrie

Wow.

Carrie

So then they would try to run away from that. And so, you know, from the people in the jail that just didn't want anything to do with Jesus, they would send a message back to the cartel leader. So he would come after my father, and they were looking for him.

Carrie 3:24

Because he's mad that, essentially, he feels like your dad is like, taking away his people because they're like, trying to follow Jesus and not be in the cartels anymore.

Keren 3:33

Yeah yeah yeah. It was his fault.

Carrie

Of course.

Keren

There's always someone to blame. So then he said, I remember, I remember, like, watching my dad. He would keep getting phone calls, and he was like, “Your daughter's next.”

Your daughter being five years old, you don't know what to do, you know, and not essentially having a job either. I guess the first thing he could, because my parents—mind you, a lot of people that migrate over here, they don’t want to be over here. Like their life is over there, everything is over there, our family’s over there, their parents are over there. But when something like that happens, which happens to a lot of people, because, you know, it's not our country anymore, all of these people took over, the corruption of politics took over, and they're just not free anymore, you know?

So when you get a phone call and they talk about, “I'm gonna kidnap your kids and I'm gonna sell them,” and all of these crazy things you don't think, you know. You just want to get out of there.

Carrie

I gotta protect my family. Yeah.

Keren

I just want to get out of there. And so my dad knew someone from church who had papers, and he had, like, someone who lived here. He lived in like an RV. So with zero dollars, zero cents, they figured out a way to cross over here, legally, but you know…

Carrie

This person from church is helping him?

Keren

Yeah. He's the whole reason why we're living here. He gave us a hand. We crossed over with a visa. A lot of people cross over to be over here and permission to be over here, and they overstay.

Carrie

Right. What type of visa was it? Was it like a work visa?

Keren

It was a tourist.

Carrie

Oh, a tourist visa, okay.

Keren 5:32

But a lot of people cross over illegally because they can't afford a visa. It's really expensive. Over here, it's not really, you know, you're like, oh, how much could that be? Like, 30 bucks, you know, but over there—

Carrie 5:43

If you don't have any money, yeah, it's like, might as well be a million.

Keren

Yeah, if you get paid $20 a week, it's really hard. And a lot of people, you know, cross over. My dad actually had crossed over illegally a lot of times. And, you know, he tells me his stories, and it's just like the things that people do, you know, to be here where I'm at…It makes me think, like, how privileged I am, you know? A lot of people only see the bad part, like, “Oh, you overstayed your visa, you’re illegal—”

Well, technically, I'm not illegal anymore because I got married and I went through all that. But, you know, I think of my parents, you know. For example, when he crossed over illegally for the first time, he was a pastor and he crossed over with another pastor because, it’s just, poverty was really bad, and they needed to work for some time to be able to afford to live.

Carrie 6:49

So their plan was like, come over, work for a little while and then go back?

Keren

Yeah.

Carrie

Is that like, before you were born, or when you were born?

Keren

No, I was, I believe I was born already. Yeah, cause my dad would come and go.

Carrie 7:02

But like, you were little?

Keren

Yeah, I was little. Yeah. My brother was little too.

BACK TO SUMMARY

He tells me, when they were crossed over, those people took advantage of everybody, especially women and little girls. So he said he saw this lady, she crossed over with her daughter, and like, they abused her daughter in front of her, and then they abused her after that. They ended up not even crossing her over, like they just took her.

Carrie

So who is the “they” who's doing that?

Keren

They're called “coyotes.”

Carrie

They're called what? Hoyokas?

Keren

Coyotes. It’s translated to “coyotes.”

Carrie

Oh okay, yeah yeah yeah.

Keren

So they're cartel members. I don't know how they get their information, but somehow they get their information, and you tell them, they give you a certain amount to pay them, and they'll cross you over.

Carrie 7:58

So they're telling you like, “We're gonna help you cross over.” But then once you're like, under their control, basically, they'll like…

Keren 8:05

They can do whatever they want.

Carrie

Do whatever they want, yeah.

Keren

It's not very certain and it’s not very safe either. It's a lot of people's only option. Well it is the only option, actually.

And my dad said in that same trip, they had to make a stop at the cartel house. They have a lot of locations, but in one of them, they usually make stops there for them to use the restroom, or, like to eat, or whatever, or just like, chill. And they went in there, and there was a guy in the kitchen, cause they had them, like, in the living room, I guess. And I guess it wasn't such a big place, because you could see, like, everything that was going on.

So he said there was this guy in the kitchen, and my dad—my dad just talks too much. He just wants to know everything. So he asked him, like, “What are you doing here? Like, how did you get this job? How did you end up here?” He was like, “My family from the United States was supposed to pay them to cross me over, but they went bankrupt or whatever, and they didn't pay them the full amount, so…”

Carrie

They just kept him.

Keren

“They kept me.” And he said, “I've been here for like 20 years.”

Carrie

Twenty?? Oh my gosh.

Keren

He said since he was like, a teenager. And mind you, this man was grown.

Carrie 9:37

Wow. So he's basically, like, kind of a slave of the coyotes?

Keren 9:45

Yeah, that’s exactly what they are. Cause they don’t get paid either. My dad prayed for him and he started crying. He said, “I wanted to have a family. I wanted to do all these things with my life, but…”

Carrie 10:01

“Now I’m just stuck here.” And is that like, that was like, a house, like, one of their houses on the Mexico side or on the US side?

Keren

Yeah, they have a lot of houses where they, like, make stops. They can also take away people's houses and just be like, “Get out. This is my house now. Go figure out where you where you're gonna go,” even if it’s legally yours. That’s how they do it.

They just, they make people, they make a lot of people just pay fines out of nowhere. They show up to your house, they're like, “Oh, we saw that you got a new vehicle,” or just, like, anything. They take advantage of anything that you have that is new, like, “Oh, because of this, you have to pay us, I don't know, 200 more,” you know? They just kind of add onto it.

Carrie 10:50

Wow. And then if people don't do what they say, what? They just shoot them?

Keren 10:55

Kidnap them, disappear them. They use that one person that stood up against them to show everyone else a lesson.

A lot of them are not technically…I don't want to, I don't want to seem like I'm being compassionate towards them, because they're not very compassionate people. But a lot of them, they just grew up being so poor, you know? And they found that that was the only way for them to see actual money. And so they didn't grow up around much love either, because poverty is so big in our country that a lot of people sell their kids.

You know, a lot of people leave their kids for many days, months, years, by themselves to go work somewhere. And then they just come back. So a lot of kids don't really have parents.

Carrie

Yeah. They're just fending for themselves.

Keren

Yeah. And they have to sell drugs, or they have to sell themselves in order to feed their other siblings, because a lot of these people don't just have one kid they have a LOT of kids, which is also not good, you know. You’re kinda forced to have kids when you should not be having all of those kids.

BACK TO SUMMARY

But going back to us, my dad got really scared. He asked his friend Carlos to give him somewhere, to just give him somewhere to stay. He has, like, this ___, this land, and then he was living, like, in an RV, and then he had another RV, like, right next to him.

Carrie

Carlos did?

Keren

Yes. And he was like—my dad told him the situation—and so he was very understanding. And we crossed over with ZERO money. I mean, I mean NOTHING.

Carrie 13:00

And how old were you?

Keren

I was six. When we crossed over, I had turned six, like a couple of days before we crossed over.

Carrie

And that was in 2012? Okay.

Keren

I remember they had a birthday party for me, which was technically my goodbye forever. They just told me we were going on vacation.

Carrie 13:23

They didn't tell you you were moving? Wow.

Keren 13:29

They just said we were going on vacation to Texas and we were gonna be back. But we never came back.

Carrie

Awww. That’s kind of traumatic.

Keren

Yeah. They threw my sixth birthday party, and everyone was there, which was odd, because we don't really celebrate birthdays over there, so…now that I’m older I’m like, Oh.

Carrie

Like, “That's why I had a giant six birthday party.”

Wow. So who came at that time? Your dad, you and your brother.

Keren 14:02

Yeah, all of us. And so, when we came over here, my dad started working in the streets, selling, like burritos for a dollar and stuff.

Carrie 14:13

Did y'all come to Midland right away?

Keren 14:19

Yes.

Carrie

Okay. That's where Carlos' land was?

Keren

Yes. He lives here. And so, watching your parents be undocumented really shows you who people are, all kinds of people, including Christians, because they take advantage of them in any possible way that they can. So, being a Christian, you know, growing up Christian, you find a church, you know, and then you find help in people. And he found help in this pastor who treated him horrible, by the way, and he was the one—and so this pastor owns a restaurant and a tire shop, and obviously, a church. They're all around the same area. And so he was like, “Yeah, you can come work for me.”

Which my dad is always like, “No matter what that man put me through, like he found me a job,” you know? Yeah, my dad tries to see the good in everything. But I mean, I saw how he was treated and as his daughter, like, I just don't understand. You know? Like, I just don't understand.

Carrie 15:58

Like, you're saying, like, that guy felt like he could, like, shortchange on pay or, like what type of stuff would he do?

Keren 16:05

Yeah, like, my dad had this thing to carry the burritos. He was new here, you know, like, he didn't have a vehicle, he didn't know—he would get lost. And, he’d start yelling at him, like, “You're supposed to sell everywhere, not just in the same street every day!” And it's like, “I get lost,” you know, like Florida was the only street that he knew. And so he wanted him to be like, everywhere. Mind you, he was walking. And then he would, like, humiliate him in front of other workers, you know. And pay him very little. Like sometimes he would just get mad. He would be like, “This week, I'm just not paying you anything.”

Carrie 16:55

Oh my gosh. And this is a pastor.

Keren

Yes.

Carrie

Wow. That’s horrible.

Keren 17:02

But thanks to him, he found a boss. He was working for this company for SUCH a long time. I forgot what it was called, but it had to do with, like, washing pipes with acid for the city. And thanks to that pastor, he found this job, and he worked there most of his life. So that was his secure job. Not everything was so bad.

Carrie

Does he still work there?

Keren

No. His boss passed away. And so the boss's brother, I believe, or one of his family members, I don't know if it was an in-law…he had been wanting my dad for a long time, you know, because my dad's, you know—

Carrie

A good worker, a good guy?

Keren

When you come over here, you gotta work. You gotta put the hustle. So he had been telling him, like, he had been, like, manipulating my dad when he worked over there, like, “If you quit and you come with me, I’ll pay you more.” And my dad's just really loyal. Like, wherever somebody gave him an opportunity, like, he stays there. Like, no matter what he's being paid because he just, he just gets attached to people. Like even if they're bad to him, he gets really attached to people. So he didn't move jobs till he passed away, and then he started working with this person, and honestly, like, he's been a huge blessing to us.

Carrie

Okay, good!

Keren

Yeah, like, I feel like now my dad is finally being paid what he deserves. And honestly, like, he's a very, very good boss, both of them.

Carrie

What job is that?

Keren 18:56

It's called HBE, I think.

Carrie

Okay, HBE.

Keren

It has to do with the same thing, it's just another establishment.

Carrie

Okay. I mean, I’m no help. I don't know a lot about pipe jobs.

Keren

But yeah, I guess that's just kind of my dad's little story.

Carrie 19:13

Well, now I want to meet your dad. He sounds amazing.

Keren

He is amazing.

BACK TO SUMMARY

…

Keren 22:14

Do you usually go to H-E-B? Do you get the butter tortillas?

Carrie 22:19

I like the butter tortillas. I also like the regular ones. I think they're all delicious. You love the butter ones? Yeah, they're really good.

Keren 22:26

Now, if you want to taste authentic, like actually, genuinely authentic tortillas–

Carrie

Mmmm, I do.

Keren

There's this place, Hispanic store where they sell just tortillas and they're handmade,

Carrie 22:44

Really? Corn or flour?

Keren 22:47

Both. They're delicious. That's where we all go, as a community.

Carrie 22:51

Really? Where is it?

Keren

It's called La Reyna.

Carrie 22:52

La Reyna? I think, I think I've seen that. I think I know where it is.

Keren 22:57

They also sell it—wait, no, La Perla. But they sell it in La Reyna.

Carrie 23:01

Oh, okay, okay.

Keren 23:04

The one that's called La Perla–

Carrie

La Perla is the tortilla place?

Keren

It’s the blue one, with the tortillas.

Carrie 23:10

Okay, I'm gonna look it up. Yum. I will go get them. Oh yeah, I see it. Tortilla. Yum. Oh yeah yeah yeah.

Keren 23:31

If you make tacos with their corn tortillas…I promise you, it'll change your life.

Carrie

I believe you. I'm willing to try it.

I went, I took lunch to the teachers at my kids’ school yesterday. It was really hot. I picked it up from Ray's. It was like, this big hot pan of pasta. And the like, administrator lady, she's Hispanic, she's and I was like, “We need to get, like, some pot holders or something to carry this in. It's so hot.” And she just, like, picks it up and carries it in. I was like, “Your hands are way tougher than mine!” She goes, “It's flipping those tortillas. I'm used to it.”

Keren 24:13

She’s not wrong. It’s a super power that we get, I guess.

Carrie

I guess so. I have little baby wimpy hands.

Keren

I’m like, “Mom does that not burn you?” She's like, “What?” Because she's like, almost like,

Carrie

Like, touching! I know.

Keren

I’m like, Oh!

Carrie 24:29

Well, I'm grateful, grateful for those tough fingers so we can have our tortillas.

Keren 24:35

Do you like cooking or no?

Carrie 24:39

I do. I do like cooking. I mean, it's like, when I HAVE to feed everyone dinner, and there's like, kids everywhere, and like, nobody likes what I cook, and it's a mess. Like, I don't love that. But actually cooking like a good meal that I've like, picked out, that I know I'm gonna like, and. Like taking my time and chopping the stuff with music on. Like, I really enjoy that. What about you?

Keren 25:07

Eh. I don't really like cooking, to be honest, which is kind of strange, because I'm supposed to like it because of my culture, but–

Carrie

It's fine. You don’t have to like it.

Keren 25:18

Yeah, I don't really like it. But do I love eating? Yes.

Carrie 25:22

Well, you know what? It takes both; someone's got to eat the stuff that people cook. And some people just really love cooking, and they get their feelings hurt if there's not people to eat it. So it's a little ecosystem. And also, you're young. I wouldn't say that I loved cooking when I was 19, either, you know? Maybe later in life you'll love it more.

Keren

Yeah, I’m sure I will. I think.

Carrie

And if you don't, it's fine. Some people don't. But like, my kids, I guess they're pretty picky. I don't know. They're not great eaters. Don't eat that much, and they're picky. And so dinner is always kind of like a joke. Like my oldest, he's 15, so he'll kind of eat whatever now, you know. But I’ll cook dinner, and it's like a win. It's like a miracle if all four of them eat it, but if just two of them eat it, I'm like, okay, good, at least two people ate it. So that's kind of a bummer.

Keren 26:31

That's crazy. They’ll just beat us up, if we don't.

Carrie 26:35

Maybe I need to crack down. I am kind of lax about it. Like, I won't make them a second dinner, yeah, but I'll let him, like, go get yogurt or, like, you know, something else, if they don't like what I made.

Keren

Do they like Mexican food?

Carrie 26:59

Oh, yeah. Well, we've kind of, we've burned them out a little bit on Rosa’s, because we eat it all the time, but they still like it. And like, my son went through a phase where he didn't like tacos because I think he, like, got sick one time, but now he likes them again. So they all like, kind of like different components of it. But usually Mexican food is, like, our like, go-to, you know. Like Tex-Mex, not like real Mexican food, but like bean refried beans, fajita meat, ground beef, like taco meat, tortillas, chips, salsa. My son loves chips and salsa so much.

Keren 27:33

It's crazy because, like Mexican Mexicans, we don't like those restaurants.

Carrie 27:38

Really? That's fair.

Keren 27:44

They just don't taste like ours, you know?

Carrie

Yeah, yeah, it is different.

Keren

Like, homemade posole–it just doesn't compare.

Carrie 27:55

Yeah, no, that's fair. I lived in Mexico for half a summer once in Cuernavaca, which was amazing. And my host mom was a really good cook, and she was a vegetarian. So we had, like, really good food. Some of it, like, took some getting used to, like, I didn't love, like, crema like, she would put crema on everything. But, like, I don't even really like sour cream either. Like, it just wasn't, I don't know…But like, she would make, like, black beans, like a black bean and like egg thing for breakfast. Like, I really liked that. Like, I never liked guacamole before that. But like her guacamole was sooo good, and it, like, converted me to guacamole. So, I mean, she probably did, like, tone down stuff for us. It wasn't like menudo or something, but it was, you know, obviously she was, like, a real Mexican. She lived in Mexico, and it was really good. It was really good. She was a very good cook. We got spoiled.

Keren

Have you tried posole?

Carrie

I don't know if I have.

Keren

What??

Carrie

Wait, what is posole?

Keren 29:06

It can be red, or it can be green. I personally love the green. It's kind of like menudo, but it’s not menudo. It doesn't have the little meat pieces.

Carrie

Okay. So it's like a green sauce? No?

Keren 29:30

It's like a caldo, you know? But it contains different things than menudo does. It has a completely different flavor. But they're very similar.

Carrie 29:43

Okay. You can make it with different kinds of meat, or no meat? You do vegetables?

Keren 29:47

My mom makes it with chicken.

Carrie 29:50

Okay,.

Keren

It’s delicious.

Carrie

I need to try some!

Keren

I can send you the recipe.

Carrie

Yeah! Send me the recipe. I don't totally trust myself, but I'll try it. I'll try to make it.

Keren 30:03

It's not that hard, honestly. I mean, I feel like if it was made with another type of meat it would be hard. I think the hardest thing about making it is just having to cut up all these things, you know?

Carrie

Yeah, that's always the hard part.

Keren

Overall it’s not really that hard.

Carrie

Okay, I do need to add that to my to do list: try posole.

Keren 30:33

If my mom makes some for—cause you know all the holidays are coming.

Carrie 30:40

Oh yeah. Does she make it for the holidays, usually?

Keren 30:42

Oh, I'll give you some to try.

Carrie

Thank you. I would love that.

Keren 30:46

And then we also make bunelos. They’re so good. And then we make…what’s it called? I don't really like it. I think that's why I don't remember. But a lot of people like it. My husband loves it. My parents, I guess it's just me. What’s it called? It's like a mixture of a bunch of things just put together. I forgot what it’s called. I’ll remember later. You might like that. Have you tried flan?

Carrie 31:25

I don't love it, but I've, I've only tried it like once, so and I don't know if it was like the best, you know, ever.

Keren

Chocoflan is good.

Carrie

I have not tried chocoflan. I bet I would probably like it better. I remember _____ made it a while back for something, but I think she just told us about it. She didn't bring us any. She was like, "I was making a bunch of chocoflan last night." Well, where is it?

BACK TO SUMMARY

Carrie 34:39

Okay, so you guys have moved here. Oh, so now your dad has this new job that's been good, and you like that guy that he works for? Okay, cool.

Keren 34:49

I feel like there's also, I wanted to touch subject on some things that a lot of people are confused about.

Carrie

Yes, please do.

Keren

I think the right. Reason to answer those questions. So a lot of people like to argue that, you know, they have politics. You have the people the right, yeah, the Republicans rights are confused on whether we do or we don't pay taxes.

Yeah, we do pay taxes. We use an ITIN number. It's called, it’s spelled it i n it number, I believe. In the 90s, they opened that system in order for undocumented people to, you know, have that open and available for them in case you just wanted to, you know, yeah, because they wanted to send money for no reason. Yeah, the reason a lot of people don't believe that we pay taxes, but the real reason why they do pay taxes, because a lot of these families, their biggest dream is to be able to fix papers, and so

Carrie 36:04

To be able to what? Fix papers. Okay, yeah.

Keren 36:06

Yeah. So the real reason why they pay taxes is not necessarily due to morality, but it's more that if, in any case, they're able to fix, you know, something around it, if they can prove that they pay taxes for such a long time, yeah, case will be like, Yeah, way faster.

Carrie 36:28

That looks good on their case, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense totally well. And I read that like the ITIN it, you pay taxes, but it doesn't qualify you for benefit. Like, you don't get, like, social security, or like, all these other things. So it's really the opposite of what people think. You're, like, paying into the system but not getting out of it.

Keren 36:53

Yeah, we're not going to be citizens. So never have a Social Security, you know? Yeah, ever, yeah. So I remember like, being eight years old and getting, like, a rare case of, like, the flu, like a very weird flu, yeah, and like, it was just too expensive to go to the doctor, that my fever was so high and I started to hallucinate, you know? And it was just like, so hard. I remember that one time I got so sick, my parents had to pay 800 and something dollars just for a visit, and they still got sent a paycheck [bill] of, like, 1000 plus for all the blood work and all the things and prescriptions and stuff.

It's so wild that's so expensive until this day, like, even though now I have,

like, everything that I need, like, so I'm not working right now and like, the whole like, chance for my husband to put me on, like, His work insurance. Like, I'm still, like, you know, struggling with that.

Carrie

So you don't have insurance right now.

Keren 38:10

And for when I got pregnant, I applied for Healthy Texas.

Carrie 38:18

Oh, yeah, you're talking about, yeah, so that's what I do. Okay? And you were able to get that, even though you didn't have your papers at that time, right? But you were still able to get that that's good.

Keren 38:32

So it's not that we get any benefits that that's open for, you know, women that don't like, they don't get accepted into medical. Yeah, you know, yeah, that's what I was told. Okay, that's open for them, because, you know, they're not just gonna like, what else are you supposed to do? Yeah? I actually, I didn't get medical attention when I was pregnant until I was somehow so I was around probably, like, four, five months. Oh, really, it was hard because, like, sometimes things would happen and I couldn't really go to another.

Carrie

Yeah, that's scary. Did everything go okay with her?

Keren

Everything went fine,

Carrie

But like, if I hadn't, what would you have done?

Keren 39:34

A lot of people say, like, for everything, like, due to this, like whole government shutdown. Oh, yeah, I see like comments that people have under post or like that they say out loud over here, the Democrats fault because they want to give insurance to illegals. And it's like somebody argues with them, and they're like, “No, it is true, because I think about it, like, if an illegal”—they don't even talk about us as people, you know—“they get into a car crash, you know, and you know, they need medical attention. They're not just gonna leave them. They're like, they're gonna take them to the hospital and we pay for that.”

It's like, you want them to just leave them? It breaks my heart, because it's horrible.

BACK TO SUMMARY

Many times, like, I've been friends with people, and as I'm sitting in the like, kitchen table, they say all these hateful things, and it's like, I don't open my mouth, you know. But I'm just like, there, and I have to, like, like, it's really hard, like, pill to swallow, and I'm just like, there in their kitchen.

Like, how can you talk about people like this?

Carrie

It's not right.

Keren 40:56

It's not right. And the fact that they referred to us as they have this very stereotypical idea of us, and a lot of times I've had to shift before off and I'm like, look at me like you're like, do I live by eternal [?] too? Have I ever stolen? And they say “you're one of them.” And I'm just like,

Carrie 41:25

I'm sorry. It's like, on the one hand, I want more people to know you. But then I'm like, you don't--you shouldn't have to be dealing with that. Like, people should already know not to be assholes and treat people like shit because of their immigration status anyway. Like, you shouldn't have to, like, know someone in order to not act that way. But apparently, that's where we have an

Keren 41:51

extremely stereotypical idea. Oh, I just expected it to look differently. Somebody told me that like, she's like, like, “dirty.”

And I just, I just remember calling my mom, and I was like, “Can you pick me up?”

Carrie 42:15

You were like, at a friend, a friend's house, they were saying all that stuff

Keren 42:20

I'm seeing, like, a lot of people come to me and then, like, I've always been very open about who I am, because it helps me know people, yeah, yeah, I feel the same way this person, she was like, I found out, like This person. She was like, and I was like, “Oh, what did she tell you?” And she was like, she said it in a very odd way: “She's like, not even like, supposed to be here. She's one of those people.” Referred to “one of those people” is just crazy.

Carrie 43:06

Yeah, that's not a good feeling. It's terrible.

Keren 43:12

It makes you feel like an animal, like to other people, yeah, do you feel like there's a,

Carrie 43:23

I don't know how to ask this sensitively. Is it like a certain type of people who act that way, or say those type of things, or is it all over the map?

Keren 43:31

You know what I've been—I've never seen this before, but, you know, I don't want to sound racist in any way. You know, when you think of race,

Carrie 43:42

You won't offend me, by the way

Keren 43:47

You think of races, you think, you know, of like American, white people, you know, yeah, but I have seen something that I've never seen before, and it's just like our own people. Our own people want to fit in. Because, let me tell you something, in Mexico, the stereotype of beauty is you, what YOU look like. It's you like the whiter, the better blue eyes. Oh yeah, the palest skin. They actually brighten their skin.

Carrie

Wow.

Keren

And they bleach their hair naturally. To make it appear as if they were more light all the time.

Carrie

Wow

Keren

They put these like very heavy filters, and they can't accept that they’re brown. So in Mexico, anything that the Americans find, they agree with…If y’all support a country, we support it. It might not be the government, but it's the people. They want to be y'all.They want to look like y’all.

It's like an older sibling and little sibling, it’s like we really look up to y’all. And so I feel like when people come over here, they want to fit in so bad, because it’s the only thing that they know, because they were taught that being brown is…it's not a good thing. Because if you're Brown, you're dirty. That’s what they tell us growing up, like they call it “prietos.”

It’s just like, a nasty way of saying, like, “dark,” you know. It’s not necessarily a bad word, okay, but it's a, it doesn't feel good–

Carrie 45:37

It's like, derogatory, yeah, yeah.

Keren 45:40

And like, it’s our own people, like, if you look a certain way, and you're like, Oh, you're freaking evil, you know, and it's just like our own people are against us. And like, coming over here, like, some of Mateo's family, for example, my husband, would just say things, because you know every struggle of the single day in life like, you know, they're darker than me, you know, and they look native, native Mexican, yeah, they would say all these things, and I'm like, How can you talk like that? You don’t have a single clue what it was like to be in Mexico. We didn’t know if we were gonna eat tomorrow,living off of lentils and rice. Many times we didn't even have that; we had to go ask somebody next to us if they have something left over.

A lot of people hate when people use the word “privilege” on them. Here, if you want to go somewhere, you go, and you feel great, listen to your music, and you get ready. Over there, you have to watch for everything,

Carrie

Just because of like the danger, like from the cartels?

Keren

It’s...jealousy is terrible. Like, if you're doing good, people would hate on you.

Carrie

They don't like to see someone succeeding. Yeah, yeah.

Keren

So when people say like, Oh, if you’re bilingual, you know, a lot of people get like, smack because we say that, because we show our flag and stuff. but in Mexico, one thing that we're taught overall as a country is just because you come over here, because a lot of people come over here and they go back over there and start treating people like…

Carrie

Like, “I'm better than you.”

Keren

Yeah, and then they start thinking that they're so American. It’s just like, you can be both. And one thing that we're very, very sure of is that we should be proud of who we are, and we should be proud of being brown. When I say “Viva Mexico!” I think of it like, I know, I know our country's corrupted, but what makes Mexico Mexico is US, it’s ME, it’s my skin, it’s my blood, it’s wherever I go, like, I’m gonna take my culture with me, and that doesn't mean that I have to be something that I'm not, you know? I have to appreciate who I am.

Carrie 48:21

Yeah, totally. Like, that's yeah, that's part of you. Yeah, wow. So you feel like you've seen an increase recently, of like, more, like, Mexican people–

Keren

EVERYONE

Carrie

being like, hateful

Keren

–including black people

Carrie

Black people

Keren 48:42

Everyone. Literally everyone. I feel like what was once something for like racism for somebody else, now it's targeted all at us, like, you know what I mean? Or it feels like everyone's just against everyone, like everyone is so just against each other.

Carrie

I know.

Keren

That's not what I've remembered.

Carrie 49:06

Yeah, no, it's worse than ever before. I think. I mean, I don't experience that type of discrimination, but I do think that there's just a lot more, just cruelty and like, hatred and indifference.

Keren 49:31

You know, it's been, I think, the hardest thing—I can expect that from the world, you know—but one thing that emotionally surprised me more than everything I’ve seen before is the churches. They’ve changed. Like, what was once a place where I could go and tell them like, Oh, I'm struggling because I’m undocumented, and just be a safe place to talk to…it’s not a safe place anymore.

Carrie 50:14

I know. That keeps me up at night, because I feel the same way, like I actually don't go to church right now for a number of reasons. I want to go to church.

Carrie 50:35

and but I mean, that's part of the reason, because every church and I've gone to, like seven different churches in town trying to find one, and I'm just like, I can't do it like. I can't do the like. I can't do the racism. I can't do the like, saying that like, What God wants is like Donald Trump to like, save everyone in the country.

Keren

I’m so done.

Carrie

I’m like, this is not Jesus at all, and I just can't with it.

Keren

It’s just idolatry.

Carrie

It’s idolatry. So bad, so bad. I have to not engage so that I can, like, still treat people kindly, because, like, if I see and hear what they're saying too much, I'm like, I can't. I can’t.

Keren 51:28

I've never seen idolatry the way that I'm seeing.

Carrie

Right?

Keren

Like, they buy SO much merch, and then they take it to church, like the hats, like, you know, the logo, and like the shirts and like they wear it with EVERYTHING. Everywhere that I go, and it's just like, there's always a verse on their car, and I see the hat, and I'm like—

Carrie 52:18

I know. My neighbors have like a god guns and Trump flag. I think the one of the last straws for me, when I was still at the church that I went to before, I was working in childcare with like, four year olds. And it's like a picture of they're like, doing a coloring page about Jesus, and which, this is not a big it's fine. It's a little kid. It's not a big deal. But it just rubbed me the wrong way. This kid like colors, his Jesus, like American flag colors. And I just was like, okay. Jesus is not American. This is not…no, of course, I didn't say anything to him, but his parents were like, Haha. Lol. American Jesus. Okay. American Jesus is not who I follow.

Keren

It is crazy.

Carrie

It is crazy.

Keren 53:07

There was actually a kid—because in my church, I also do, serve in kids—there's a kid that drew a Nazi flag.

Carrie

What??

Keren

He drew a Nazi flag on the coloring page.

Carrie

In church? Okay, that's way worse than American Jesus. Oh my gosh.

Keren

I just did not even know how to deal with it.

Carrie

Wow.

Keren

And he did not want to talk to me.

Carrie

How old was he?

Keren

He looked like he was like, seven.

Carrie 53:43

Okay, that raises some serious questions, because I'm like, if you're like, a teenager, you could find that on your own, but if you're seven or eight, obviously you got that from an adult in your life.

Keren 53:53

And I, I did not know what to say

Carrie

Wait, where do you go to church?

Keren

My parents, they got chosen to be—cause the church is a part of what's called—I'm sorry all of these terms. I just know them in Spanish.

Carrie

You can say in Spanish,

Keren 54:18

It's like a Christian Hispanic organization. And so when there's a church that is missing a pastor, you know, they call somebody that has their license, their minister license, and they tell them, “Hey, do you want to give it a try over here?” And so that's what happened. There's like, this really, really small church in the south side. And they have been pastorless for like, a year. So then they called my dad, and he was like, “Yeah, I’ll do it.” So now they're pastoring there. And they barely started, like, a couple months ago.

Carrie 54:56

What do you think? How's it going?

Keren

It's going good. I feel like, I feel much better because my church that we were in previously, it was just Trump everything, and we were just like, we were so sick of it. And it's not necessarily that we have anything against it. It was just like, you know, they were the co-pastors, you know, and everyone knows their situation, and it’s like, half of the church is illegal.

Carrie 55:27

Really? So then are all the illegal people also pro-Trump? That's hard for me to understand.

Keren 55:35

Yeah. I’m telling you, these people just want to fit in. Whatever the, you know, like I said, whatever the American people agree with, they want to agree with them. They want to be picked so bad. Even though, like, it applies to them, you know, like, they will make themselves..like they will demonize themselves in order to fit in, or stand out, you know like, “I’m not like them, I’m different.”

Carrie 56:05

…to kind of separate. It's like they feel like, if they're like MAGA, then they're not going to be as associated with like, the illegal…

Keren 56:12

Like people won't be like, as cruel with them. But like, it applies to them. I mean I've seen everything. I’ve seen everything.

Carrie 56:20

So interesting. I mean, it makes sense that's like, a normal thing that humans do is like, just scramble to not be the one on the bottom of the totem pole, you know? But it just makes me sad, because it's like, I don't think your MAGA hat is gonna save you when ICE comes. Maybe it will. I don't know.

BACK TO SUMMARY

Okay, so you got, that's how you got your status was getting married. Okay, so what do you have? Are you a permanent resident?

Keren 56:52

Yeah, I, I'm here, like they gave me a temporary one because we were married for under two years. So when you're married for under two years, they give you a temporary one, and then you have to prove to them that, you know, you’re not, like

Carrie 57:07

Like, it wasn't like fake just to get it.

Keren

Yeah, it wasn’t fake. So next year I’m gonna be applying for my permanent.

Carrie 57:11

Okay, okay, cool.

Keren 57:21

Which is ten years. But with my ten year, I can apply for citizenship, just because I've been here, for my whole life, you know, like

Carrie

Yeah, yeah

Keren

I’ve been here forever, like I don’t know ___, which is crazy, because growing up, I always felt like I didn't belong here. And then when I went to Mexico and I visited, I also felt like I didn’t belong there, and I feel like I don't belong anywhere, you know, like they don't want me here, and they don't want me there, like they don't want me over there anyway. It's like, it's hard. I feel like, like I said, you kind of feel like an animal.

Carrie 58:04

Did you, so before, like this year, did you ever feel in danger of deportation?

Keren

Oh yeah.

Carrie

Like kind of constantly, or just at certain times?

Keren 58:22

I mean, it's just a very big torment. I'm always afraid for my parents. I’m always afraid.

And they just like, they're just so calm about it. I’m like, “Don't drive like that,” and they don’t drive bad, but it’s just like, “Watch out!” you know? Like if they speed, like a little bit, I’m like “Slow down.”

And they're just like, “Whatever God has in store for us, it's just gonna happen.” They're like, “I can't live in fear. I lived so many years in fear I just don't want to do it anymore.”

Carrie 59:02

I get that. I get that. So then your parents still don't have legal status.

Keren 59:09

No, but since I'm turning 20 next year, I can apply to fix their status when I’m 21.

Carrie 59:18

Okay, not that far. Yeah, just gotta get…

Keren 59:23

As soon as I turn 21, I’m just gonna be helping them out.

Keren 59:30

Honestly, like, it's just gonna feel like, like a bunch of childhood trauma and just like everything that I've just been holding in my shoulders for so many years, like it's finally just gonna just fall down.

Carrie 59:44

Exhale, yeah, yeah. Oh, that will be so nice.

Keren

I’m gonna take a lot of weight off.

Carrie 59:52

Did you—when you were getting your temporary residency—how did that go? Like, was it fine? The process?

Keren

It went amazing.

Carrie

Really? Good!

Keren

God was really good to me.

Carrie

There was no hang ups or?

Keren 1:00:08

It was incredible! Like everything was, it was so smooth.

Carrie

Good!

Keren

I got there and like, to the interview, you have to show up with a BUNCH of stuff, like a bunch of proof.

Carrie 1:00:19

Oh, I'm sure, yeah.

Keren 1:00:22

They make you, well, the lawyer, she tells you, like you should make this like, whole, like book, with like photos, and put all the dates on them. And so I did that…pictures, like, EVERYTHING you can imagine.

And then, I get this super sweet officer. He served in the Navy, I think, or something like that. It was like, from the very first like, hello, like, I already knew–

Carrie

You had a good feeling.

Keren

I already knew we would get along. We just joked the whole time. And it was crazy, because I was looking at, like, the other groups and other people with their officers. They're just like this. Like, they were like shaking like, like they were SCARED. And I was so scared of getting one of those people. And I feel like God helped me so much, because this man, this man was God-sent. And he didn't ask me anything, like we were just talking about our personal lives, and just like joking, about school and like the Navy and the Army. Cause like, my husband wanted to join something, I think the Navy is what he wanted, but he didn't end up doing it.

And we were just chatting about that, and then I don't know he said, “Oh, okay, well, when you cross over, just tell them that that you're gonna be getting sent your residence soon so they could just take your work permit. I was like, “Huh?” and he was like, “Yeah, you got approved!”

It was just…it was just…I can’t explain it. It was just, like, I don't know, like, it felt like this depression that I was like, going through like, it just suddenly, like, like, everything just turned into colors. I'm finally gonna be with my daughter without being, like, afraid of her being taken away from me and stuff.

Carrie 1:02:29

Yeah, that's amazing. Where was that? Was that at the courthouse?

Keren

The interview?

Carrie

Yeah

Keren

They do those in El Paso.

Carrie 1:02:37

Oh, that's right. Okay, so you had to go to El Paso for that.

Keren 1:02:40

It was a great trip, actually.

Carrie

Really? Yeah, I love El Paso. It’s so great.

Keren

It was, like, close to home.

Carrie

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you…how much did that cost? Do you mind if I ask?

Keren 1:02:59

Um…for my lawyer, it was like–

Carrie

Oh, and how did you find your lawyer, also?

Keren

Recommended by this other lady. That she took her residence through that same lawyer, so she kind of, like, passed me the contact.

Carrie

That's cool.

Keren 1:03:17

It was–they had this same thing twice.

Carrie 1:03:21

Oh, really?

Keren

Downtown. Borland and Borland.

Carrie 1:03:23

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that.

Keren

She was great. It was $7,000.

Carrie

Wow! For the lawyer?

Keren

Yeah, for everything.

Carrie

For everything? Okay.

Carrie 1:03:38

And like, could someone get their resident, permanent residency or temporary residency without a lawyer, it would just be really hard? Or do you have to have a lawyer?

Keren 1:03:50

No, you don't have to. You can fill out everything by yourself, but if you mess up on one thing, you’re done. That’s it.

Carrie

Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Okay. Wow, $7,000.

Keren

Plus, there’s like a lot of other things I had to get. I had to get a medical; that was the most expensive, it was $2,000.

Carrie

Oh my gosh.

Keren 1:04:11

For one medical.

Carrie

Like, an exam?

Keren

Yeah, without insurance.

Carrie

Wow.

Keren

We don't have insurance.

Carrie

Yeah.

Keren 1:04:16

So she gave me, like, this freaking whole book of people, and she was like, “These are the most expensive and more available, and these are the cheaper and less available price range.” So I went to one of the cheaest. It was $450 or $480 somewhere around there, for one medical.

Carrie 1:04:40

Oh my gosh.

Keren

Plus getting it sent over there, they charge you a fee, of like, another $2,000.

Carrie 1:04:49

To send your medical report?

Keren 1:04:51

To send everything in the pack.

Carrie

To send everything in the pack, okay.

Keren

They just fine you for anything.

Carrie

Okay. Oh my gosh.

Keren

Okay, what else? I know they charged $200 and something for something, but I can't remember for what.

Carrie

Wow.

Keren

It's just like, yeah. They have just fees and fees and fees and fees, and medical. And um, it just felt like a discriminatory, like, the whole medical thing, because, like, the thing that they prioritized the most on was having, like, all your vaccines and stuff, and it makes you feel like the laboratory animal. Like, “If you don't have all your vaccines, like, you might get someone sick.” Like the whole “alien” term just like really messes with your head, you know? Like, it doesn’t make you feel…

Carrie 1:05:39

Yeah, you're like, “I promise you, I've been exposed to the same germs as everyone else that's lived in this town for the last 15 years.”

Keren 1:05:49

And to go to school, like, I have to have the same vaccines as everyone else.

Carrie 1:05:53

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Keren

It's very discriminatory.

Carrie

Yeah. And so wild, especially in this current moment where, like, the whole thing about MAGA is not getting vaccinated.

Keren

Oh, oh, and they force you to get vaccines against your will. I had to get the Covid vaccine against my will and the HPV vaccine—they don't give you an option. If you don't get the Covid

vaccine or the HPV one, you don't get nothing.

Carrie

Really? As far as your papers?

Keren 1:06:30

Yeah. You just can't get your residency if you don’t get that. Like, if you want it, get vaccinated.

Carrie 1:06:36

That's so inconsistent.

Keren 1:06:40

It’s like, y’all believe in not getting vaccinated–-

Carrie

–but only for certain people.

Keren

Because I was in a thing when our previous president was into office, because I asked her, because when I was doing all this process, it’s when he, like, got elected, it switched.

Carrie

When Biden got elected?

Keren

No.

Carrie

When Trump got elected? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Keren 1:07:06

So Biden was in office when I was applying, and then right after, Trump got elected. So it was like, half and half. So I got to see how it changed based on the president.

Carrie 1:07:16

Yeah, interesting.

Keren

She was like, “No, they won’t force you to get vaccinated for blah blah blah.” Now it switches four months later, she's like, “So it changed, cause everything changes with new policies, new person in power.” You can’t get your residency if you're not vaccinated for all these things that they require.

Carrie 1:07:40

Hold on. Let me make sure I'm understanding you right. When you started your process, Biden was president, and the Covid vaccine was NOT mandatory to get your residency?

Keren

It was an option.

Carrie

It was an option.

Keren

The other ones were mandatory, but that one wasn’t.

Carrie

Okay. And then when Trump took office, the Covid vaccine became mandatory to get your papers?

Keren 1:08:03

That was my experience. I don't know if it was everybody else's experience but that was my experience.

Carrie

That is wild. That's so hypocritical. Wow. Okay.

Keren

And I had all the paperwork too.

Carrie

So you had to get it and you didn't want to?

Keren 1:08:26

It was so painful too. Like, it was just so painful. I was like, well…

Carrie

Worth it, but wish that you didn't have to make that choice.

Keren 1:08:38

And I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong either, because I think I remember the same lady that gave me the lawyer contact, I asked her, like, what about the vaccines? You know, because everyone knows they make you go through this process. I think she told me like, “They didn't make me take the covid vaccine cause I just didn’t want to.” I believe. I might be wrong, but that I know of, they weren’t always–

Carrie

–it wasn’t mandatory before.

Keren

Cause my own lawyer was like, “Now they're getting strict with it.” She she sat me down, she was like, “They're getting stricter with things, like, you need to be aware that there's like, things that you might not want to do that you’re required to do now, just because everything just got stricter.”

Carrie 1:09:21

I'm gonna ask Keysi, because she got her citizenship when Biden was in office. So I'm gonna ask her if she had to get it. I'm curious about that. Gosh, that's so crazy.

BACK TO SUMMARY

Okay, so your mom, was your mom…like you didn't mention your mom when you were talking about in Mexico. Was she around at that time too? You just didn’t mention her?

Keren

Yeah.

Carrie

Okay. So she–all four of you came at the same time?

Keren 1:09:49

We did. Yeah. My mom worked all her life here, like in restaurants and stuff, she overworked, I can say. She truly overworked, like–the way that she looked before we came here, like now she looks wasted, like she just overworked herself in every way. My mom had to take me to work, and she would go to work at 2:00 in the morning, and she would take me to work, and then from there, she would take me to school, and like, and I wouldn't sleep. Like, going to school was really hard.

Carrie 1:10:24

Yeah, if you haven't slept. Where was she working at two in the morning?

Keren 1:10:29

It was like, a tortilla factory

Carrie

Okay, so they had to, wow.

Keren 1:10:34

But the good thing is, I guess Lee was, like, very close to that. So like it wasn’t that far.

Carrie 1:10:46

So that's when you were older?

Keren

Yeah, I was in high school. And also, when I came here, like, for the first time, there was some sort of, still, like, discrimination, like, I came here when I was six, so my first year of school was first grade, and when I got there, my first day, it was horrible. Like, she just looked mad that I was there.

Carrie

The teacher?

Keren

Yeah, she looked really mad that I was there. I don't know if she just was having a bad day, you know…I can’t blame, you know, like, I don’t really know her situation. But based on how she, like, treated just me the rest of the day, it was just like, really obvious. You know, I don't know what was wrong with her that day, but she was just like, “Whatever you do, just sit in the back. Like, don't talk, don't say anything. Just sit in the back.”

Carrie

What?? She told you that?

Keren

The whole year, I sat in the back and while she was teaching every—mind you, it was a bilingual class—

Carrie

It was?

Keren

Yeah, it was a bilingual class. But the whole class period, the whole class was in English. Sometimes she would like switch to Spanish…

Carrie

So it wasn't really bilingual?

Keren

No, it wasn't really bilingual. Even though there was like, a language barrier, I still exceeded in that class. Like that never stopped me.

I remember them sitting me down and telling me—they were very manipulative, like they were very discriminatory and they were very manipulative—and she sat me down with my mom right next to me, and she was like, “If your daughter doesn't learn English in the next six months, we're gonna drop her to pre K.” I was six years old. I was thinking to myself, like I was so scared, because I was like, “How am I supposed to be in second grade, you know, and I’m over here with all the people in pre-K?” Like that's just not right, you know? Like, what?

And so that scared me. And I pushed myself too hard to learn, and I did learn.

Carrie

You were like, “I have to.”

Keren

I kinda have to.

Carrie

Wow. That's so much for a little kid.

Keren

So I learned English in one year.

Carrie

That's amazing. That's so smart. Wow.

Keren 1:13:19

It wasn't great. But over the years, I started to perfection it. My accent comes and goes.

But, yeah. That was hard. Thinking about it like, now I'm just like—

Carrie

“How did I do that?” Man.

Keren 1:13:37

If somebody like, said that to my daughter now…I don't know what I would have done. I would have said a lot of things. Like, “That's not right, like it’s not her fault.”

Carrie

“You're gonna put a seven year old with a bunch of four year olds?” Like, no. Well, I'm glad you didn't have to do that, but I'm sorry that you were put in that situation. That stinks.

What else? What have we missed that you wanted to mention?

Keren

Um, what else? Is there any questions you have for me? About things that you’re hearing?

Carrie 1:14:29

Have you ever been able to go back to Mexico? You've never been back?

Keren

Yeah, I went on my birthday.

Carrie

Oh, wow. So you just went?

Keren 4 1:14:38

It was an emotional trip.

Carrie

Yeah, I bet. Wait, when was your birthday?

Keren

July.

Carrie

July. Okay. You went back to, like, where you're from? Did you see family and stuff?

Keren

Yeah, I saw everyone. It wasn't very welcoming, because, like, I said, like, a lot of people don't think—like, if they didn't grow up being close to you, they're just like, “Oh, you're here? Eh.”

And to me, it was like, “Hi everyone!” And they were just like, “Hey.”

Carrie 1:15:13

Was that the first time you had been back since you left? Wow!

Keren

It was like, 13 years.

Carrie

That's a big deal.

Keren 1:15:22

So it’s like, I guess my heart was broken a little bit because it’s like, I’ve looked forward to this my whole life, and you’re just like…

Carrie 1:15:31

And it wasn't what you were envisioning. I'm sorry. That's really disappointing.

Keren

It’s okay.

Carrie

Did your husband go with you? What's his name?

Keren

Mateo.

Carrie

Mateo? Okay, wow. But I'm guessing your parents didn't go because they're…they won’t be able to get back in?

Keren 1:15:49

People just kept mentioning, “What we really wish is that your parents would be here.”

Carrie 1:15:55

You’re like, “What am I, chopped liver?”

Keren 1:16:00

It's okay. I mean, I feel like—I like when people are honest, you know, about what they feel. I don't like when people feel like they have to do something to pretend, you know.

Carrie 1:16:12

Yeah. But it would be nice if what they were feeling was nicer.

Keren 1:16:15

It just made me realize, like, I have a lot of good things here, you know.

Carrie 1:16:23

Yeah. But your brother is living there now?

Keren

He’s living with us right now.

Carrie

But he’s visiting? But like he did he go back at some point, I guess?

Keren 1:16:31

Yeah, when I went, he was over there. Cause he has his family over there.

Carrie

Ohh, okay. What's his status? He doesn’t have status. Okay, so how did he get back in this time?

Keren 1:16:44

Oh, with a visa. Cause a tourist visa, you’re visiting.

Carrie 1:16:46

Okay, okay, okay, so he was able to get a tourist visa. Okay. Wow.

Keren 1:16:54

When we first came here, he only stayed here for like, a year, because he had a girlfriend back there. Oh, I forgot to mention something really important!

So when we crossed over, you know, but we crossed over because of the persecution, my dad being afraid. My dad gets a phone call randomly while he's over here. It’s this lady from church. She's like, freaking out. She's like, I need to tell you something.

Carrie 1:17:22

From church back home?

Keren

Yeah, from church from Mexico.

Carrie

Okay. OKay.

Keren 1:17:26

He’s like, “What’s up? What’s going on?” She's like, “You remember you were being threatened by some guys?” Well, all of those people…the news exposed a list of people, because they had left people dead and naked in the street. My dad was in that list.

And the same day that we left, they left those people dead in the street, and the only one that survived was my dad, because we crossed over here. Yeah.

Carrie

That’s so scary.

Keren

And they left them like, chopped up, like naked.

Carrie 1:18:12

Oh my gosh. Was it a bunch of other—was it like pastors, too?

Keren

We don’t know. It’s just random people. I guess just people that pissed them off.

It was crazy. And my dad was like, wow.

And then those two people got caught, okay, based on, you know, all the lists and the proof and all that. They got caught and they got locked up.

Carrie

Oh good!

Keren

So then my brother went back cause he was scared that his girlfriend was gonna break up with him, blah blah blah. He was just a depressed teen.

Carrie

Yeah, an angsty teen.

Keren

I basically grew up here alone, like a small family, just my parents my whole life. So Christmas was really lonely, and birthdays were even more lonely. Everything was really lonely.

Carrie 1:19:04

Does your brother have kids?

Keren

Mmm hmm, he does.

Carrie

Okay. In Mexico? So his family's still there?

Keren

Mmm hmm.

Carrie 1:19:16

Okay, wow. How is, like the violence and cartel situation in—what's it called? Nueva Casa Grande—now?

Keren 1:19:26

Now, I feel like it's worse in certain areas of Mexico, you know. Like, for example, like, in Juarez it's really bad. Sinaloa, it’s horrible. Like you can't even drive by.

Carrie

Mmmm.

Keren 1:19:45

Where we're from, it's really not that bad. They're obviously there. They're obviously there. They make themselves known and stuff, but they try to assimilate. They try to assimilate as if they're not there.

Carrie

Oh, interesting. Okay. So you feel like people are going about their normal lives for the most part?

Keren

Yeah. Everyone blends into the chaos. They try to live their life as best as possible. It's not as bad where I live. I think you can enjoy your life, semi good.

Carrie

That’s good.

Keren

There’s places where it’s just horrible.

Carrie 1:20:31

Oh, you might not know this because you were a kid, so you might not remember. But do you remember, like, knowing the reasons why so many, like, Chinese and Japanese immigrants were coming to that area?

Keren 1:20:48

I honestly don't know, but I think it's because of job opportunities, you know, because people love like, just things from other parts of the world. It becomes really popular in Mexico, you know, they love foreign things. They love foreign people, they love foreign things.

Carrie

So like, if someone wants to open, like, a Chinese food restaurant, they'll feel like they can do that there, because the Mexicans will be super excited about it? Okay, interesting.

Keren 1:21:20

There’s a lot of job opportunities for foreign people because, you know, there's people because—mind you, like, yes, there's a lot of poor people in Mexico. When you think of Mexico, you think poverty. But the other half is extremely rich. Like, I would go to eat, and I would just see people like _____ and, like insane vehicles. And I'm just like, wow. And they just cross over here to eat brunch, and then they just go back. It’s crazy. Like the people that are rich are truly

rich.

Carrie

Yeah, yeah. And there's a big gap between them and the poor people.

Keren 1:22:06

Yeah. And they're like…I feel like, as bad as racism is with white people over here, because there's rich white Mexicans over there, and there's, you know, rich white Americans over here. I can say that I prefer the white side on this side than the white side over there, cause over there they just think SO highly of themselves.

Like, I woke up late and we went to this, like, really bougie restaurant in our town. It was our last day there. I just woke up late—and I'm always dressed up. Like one thing about me, I cannot go anywhere with not my hair done, my makeup done, with a nice outfit. I just get too embarrassed. And in Mexico, you can't go out in pajamas. You can't go out in slides, you can't go out in Uggs.

Carrie 1:22:58

Yeah, I kind of remember that from when I was there, yeah.

Keren

You CANNOT. Like you have to be put together. We’re very judgmental,

And I just didn't care. Like, I just woke up late. I just wanted to go somewhere really good to eat, and I didn’t even care.

When I got there, everyone was in dresses, high heels, like, their best jewelry, bling bling. Nice purses, nice vehicles outside, the ____, like they just expect it. And I just come in with my freakin’ flip-flops and my pajamas. And everyone just…I felt like I’m gonna faint. That was my worst nightmare.

Carrie 1:23:39

You’re like, “This is exactly what I've been trying to avoid my whole life.” Oh man.

Keren 1:23:46

It was horrible. The looks were just, like, horrible. But it was really good.

Carrie

Good food! There you go.

Keren 1:23:54

The people that have things over, they just think too highly of themselves. I feel like here, like, even if somebody has, like, a higher—like, even if they're racist or whatever—like if you go out to eat somewhere, they just kind of mind their business.

Carrie

Yeah, they don't care.

Keren

Yeah, they're not that judgmental

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